Adelina Shaidullina: What does Daytona Mess mean?
Anne-Dauphine Borione: It’s basically a play on words. I’m a huge fan of Lana Del Rey, and one of her songs is called Daytona Meth. I changed the second word as I’m a bit messy in my art practice. I also wanted a reference to something American because I’ve been wanting to live in the USA for as long as I can remember. I wanted to have an artist name. Even in France, my real name is a rare one. I wanted something that I could pour myself into and that is not related to me directly.
A spread from Lolli Pop, a zine about dope women in music, featuring Lana Del Rey, 2019. Design: Anne-Dauphine Borione
AS: Lana Del Rey was also the inspiration for your first tattoo.
ADB: Yes, absolutely.
AS: It’s set in Seagram from Dafont that you’ve erased serifs from. What do you think of this design now, after graduating from TypeMedia?
ADB: I think it’s really bad in every possible way, but I’m also quite proud of it. When I look in the mirror and see my tattoo, I get reminded that type design is a journey, a never-ending journey. There will always be something to learn. So for me, it’s really symbolic, it’s a reminder that I always have to progress, which is what I love about type design.
AS: Do you tend to find inspiration in immature designs?
ADB: I like extremely well-crafted, high-end, elegant serif typefaces. At the same time, I like completely berserk display typefaces that are not necessarily aesthetic but that have some personality to them. So maybe I might be inspired by a less beautiful design, but it has to be well-crafted.
Baleze Display by Anne-Dauphine Borione
AS: How did you work with references and inspirational pieces?
ADB: When I started with type design, I really liked looking at five different typefaces and thinking: how can I mix them to make something unique? I was reading a book about creativity the other day, and the author was saying that one of the ways to be creative is taking two things that are not necessarily related and making them work together. Maybe that’s not really ethical. But at first, that was really helpful. I think I moved away from this practice now, though, and try to think more by myself.
AS: I am sure, Erik van Blokland would say it’s a legit way to design type, but probably not an ethical way to make illustrations. Do you also find typographic inspiration in video games?
ADB: I say that all the time that music and video games are my main inspirations. One of my favourite video games is Baldur’s Gate 3, and the typeface used in it is Quadraat by Fred Smeijers, who actually was one of my teachers at TypeMedia. So I had the occasion to talk to him about it.
But other than that, I am mostly inspired by the feel and aesthetic of video
From the Live in Baldur’s Gate poster series. Design: Anne-Dauphine Borione
Baldur’s Gate 3 screenshot. Set in Quadraat
AS: You mean you also find inspiration in the character design?
ADB: Absolutely. I won’t do it for a living, but I’m a huge fan of character design. I love Arcane, and the character design of the main characters, Jinx and Vi, influenced one of my last typefaces, a variable color typeface. But my work is influenced not only by the visuals, but also by the characters’ personalities, and the materials of the world they live in, the textures, the sounds… I can see the texture of armour in a video game and create a typeface from it. I believe that you can make everything in type design, and you can make type from everything.
AS: It seems that legibility isn’t the most important characteristic of the typeface for you. What is, then?
ADB: An extreme display typeface can work for me if the aesthetic makes sense with the concept behind. So if I’m working on a typeface that references a certain video game or something more abstract, like an emotion, I want the aesthetic of the typeface to reference it both visually and in its feel, the impression, the thing it makes people feel. It’s similar to artistic practice.
Plasmid by Anne-Dauphine Borione inspired by mitosis
AS: So, can typefaces of such kind work as just graphics?
ADB: For me, absolutely. I like type design because you can make words, sentences, and text without
AS: As your first degree is in arts I have to ask you: have you ever thought about what a proper exhibition showcasing type would look like?
ADB: It’s constantly in the back of my mind. I think if I were to go back to fine arts now, this is what I would be doing now. I’m really envisioning something like the interior of a dungeon, but everything centered around type, and very interactive. That has to really demonstrate the character of the typeface, not just describe it with text. I would love to do that one day.
AS: Which one of your typefaces would you choose to do this?
ADB: I’m now working on my graduation project from TypeMedia, it’s called Dargon. It received the Gerard Unger Scholarship, so I am still very much working on it. Dargon would be my dream typeface to exhibit.
Dargon by Anne-Dauphine Borione
Dargon by Anne-Dauphine Borione
AS: Dargon also has text styles. Do you enjoy working on text styles as much as you enjoy working on experimental stuff?
ADB: A year ago I would tell you that I only like display typefaces and don’t care about text, but now it’s fifty-fifty. Sometimes I crave working on text typefaces, sometimes I exclusively crave display.
Approximately every Friday night I start a new font, and mostly these fonts are display, as I think that’s still the core of my practice. But now I’m learning to get along with text typefaces, and I enjoy it.
Dargon Text by Anne-Dauphine Borione
AS: You post sketches on Twitter much more often than just on Fridays! How much time do you spend daily on drawing type? And how many of the sketches end up as typefaces?
ADB: I don’t spend enough time on typefaces, it’s just never enough. I try to work on type between two and four hours a day, but it’s really difficult because I’m also teaching at university.
Honestly, everything I do ends up online. If I’m working, you will see me work. If I’m posting something, it means that I’ve designed something. If I didn’t post, I didn’t.
I get really inspired by people who also show the behind-the-scenes, the process and designs that haven’t worked. Because I think that you can learn from what hasn’t worked as much as from what has worked. I don’t care if it’s only one letter, it’s important for me to share it.
W (posted on Twitter by Anne-Dauphine Borione)
AS: Would you advise designers who are only starting to be as open and sincere online as you are?
ADB: I think it’s also a matter of personality. I’m pretty exuberant and open in the way that I approach sharing in terms of art practice. I think if it doesn’t feel forced, sharing is the best thing to do. I’m actually trying to reduce the amount of things not connected with type design. I would like to post a tiny bit, and just post about my work.
I would definitely advise young designers to try sharing what they do because receiving feedback and constructive criticism is a great way to learn.
A WIP typeface (posted on Twitter by Anne-Dauphine Borione)
AS: Do you get a lot of constructive feedback online?
ADB: I do, sometimes it’s not wanted and perhaps aggressive, which, I guess, one should expect as long as they share something online. But I also receive a lot of very nice comments.
AS: Why didn’t you quit Twitter when most of the type design people did?
ADB: I thought about it. I think about quitting Twitter every two days. But the reason I stay is not only because I built a community of people that are really receptive to my work, which I’m infinitely grateful for, but also because I feel like it’s a safe space for me. Of course, Twitter is not a safe place in general, but I can share the things that I cannot share on Instagram, which requires more polished work.
I really need this kind of outlet, almost like a diary. If it were not on Twitter, it would be somewhere else.
AS: Why not on typo.social?
ADB: I posted on typo.social in the first five days of knowing of its existence, and then I forgot. I feel like it’s a question of habit. If Twitter were to shut down, I would do the same on Mastodon. But now it’s a bit scary for me because I don’t have a following there and I have to rebuild everything.
AS: Where do you keep track of what other designers do?
ADB: Mostly on Instagram. Well, I also don’t check many people. When I want to look at references, my main source of inspiration is are.na. I’m not very public on this platform, but I have a huge collection of references on my computer, and it’s extremely well-organised. It’s built over, like, ten years of loving graphic design.
Black Hours, Morgan, 15th century. From Anne-Dauphine’s reference collection
Wizardry III and IV for PC, CD cover. From Anne-Dauphine’s reference collection
Archive Dragon card from Madig. The Gathering game. From Anne-Dauphine’s reference collection
Diplomatic serpentine initials, René-Prosper Tassin, 1755. From Anne-Dauphine’s reference collection
AS: Do you know Elizabeth Goodspeed? She has around 3,000 channels.
ADB: I love her Future Mediaeval channel! I was so excited to look at it.
AS: You mentioned that you are considering switching from Adobe to other software. Which alternatives are you looking into?
ADB: This was a while back. I don’t think I still am thinking about it. But if I was thinking about it, then something open source, basically. I have a few of my favourite typefaces distributed as open source, and I think it’s the way to go. I’ve been dabbling in Inkscape because I thought it was working better with colour fonts and variable fonts than Illustrator. But it’s difficult to relearn everything, so I’m staying in the safe spot for now. But it’s so expensive and clunky, and I would like to switch away. I just need to research more.
AS: How do you decide whether to release your typeface as open source or go to a foundry that will sell it?
ADB: My first thought is: “Is it actually usable or is it more like an art project?” If it tends to be an art project, I tend to release it as an open source. Let’s take Lithops which is on Velvetyne. I spent a crazy amount of time on it, and I thought it would never be used because its aesthetic is too specific and too complex. So I thought I would rather have everyone enjoy it for free and be able to dabble in drawing more glyphs if they want to.
So, for me, it’s mostly a question of how people will enjoy the font. And if I really want people to use my typeface, I tend to think it’s better as open source.
Lithops by Anne-Dauphine Borione
AS: Did you see people adding glyphs to the Lithops?
ADB: Unfortunately, not yet. I don’t see a lot of my typefaces in use, and I don’t really draw typefaces to have them in use. A part of me does, of course. But I find more joy in the process of drawing the fonts than in releasing them.
All the Years Combine book cover set in Lithops. Design: Jason Arias
Philo fashion company identity set in Nautila by Anne-Dauphine Borione and Neue Montreal by Pangram Pangram. Design: Cosimo Miccoli
AS: Do you also work on custom type?
ADB: I had one project so far, and I was really happy to work on it. For the longest part of my life I was living off graphic design freelance projects, and having a type design freelance job made me happy. If it were up to me, I would only draw retail fonts.
AS: So you are planning to launch a foundry in the future?
ADB: Absolutely. I don’t know when, I don’t know where, I don’t know how it will happen, but I’m all up for it. This is my dream. I’m thinking of someday removing my fonts from the platforms they are at and presenting them like a package. I also want to present my fonts as the person behind them. I would like to have a platform that gathers everything I’ve done and shows it as an art project. I’m trying to conceptualise this platform more and more.
It’s still difficult with the amount of work I have, and then there are managerial and banking issues. At TypeMedia, everyone was telling us: “Don’t start a foundry!” And I’m not, I’m more of an artist than a marketer, so I’m trying to conceptualise it first.
Sichem, a work-in-progress typeface, by Anne-Dauphine Borione
AS: How does it feel to become a teacher at École de Communication Visuelle right after graduation?
ADB: I have a massive case of imposter syndrome. First of all, shout out to Morgane VanTorre, who is the person I’m replacing for a year, while she is at TypeMedia. It was really kind of her to reference me. It is absolutely crazy to be teaching. It’s getting more and more easy, but still extremely difficult. I feel like I should have been a first-year student myself, I have tons to learn. But I find a lot of joy in the process of sharing some tips and methods of working that I find are helpful for people who are just starting.
My students are the kindest, and they’re really hard-working. I’m really lucky in that sense.
Aliénor Display by Anne-Dauphine Borione
AS: What are the most common problems that people starting in type design face?
ADB: That is a good question. I think it’s mostly the cohesiveness of a typeface. I mean, I’m still learning it myself, but typefaces are systems that have very fine details in it, and my students sometimes only see the system but not the details in it, or see the details but not the system. So I’m trying my best to teach them the association of these two parts.
AS: Don’t you feel that there are too many type design classes now in the world?
ADB: I think there are not enough! Some of my students don’t have Macs, they have PCs. It’s a huge problem because most of the type design programmes are on Mac. So I still feel that type design is a bit of an elitist field. I am afraid type design feels like an old guy kind of thing and I want it to be more like a young designer kind of thing. Sometimes I think that it’s this way still because we are in a very conventional field with lots of rules to follow, but I’m trying to break that a bit by doing extreme display typefaces. It’s like in Ratatouille: everyone can do type design. So I regret that there are not more type design courses.
AS: What kind of software are you working on?
ADB: My main software is Glyphs, which is only on Mac. I’m trying my best to learn RoboFont. Together with my students, I’m experimenting with FontLab, which has a PC version. I dabbled in FontForge and closed it immediately because it was too difficult.
AS: What are the historical type designers that influenced you?
ADB: For my TypeMedia revival assignment I did a revival of Tiemann-Mediäval. I really like William Morris, who created Kelmscott Press. Basically, in terms of historical typefaces, I’m mostly influenced by uncials, but I am not that knowledgeable about historical references. I’m mostly influenced by contemporary stuff.
Tiemann-Mediäval revival by Anne-Dauphine Borione
Morris Gotisch by William Morris, 1891
Golden Type by William Morris and Edward Prince, 1890
AS: That’s actually the last question I have: what are the must-visit places in Paris for someone who loves typography?
ADB: I have no idea! I’m the worst Parisian in the world! I would guess The Bibliothèque Nationale de France is the right place because they have a huge collection of manuscripts and old books. This would be my number one idea.
AS: I was also told to go to Père Lachaise Cemetery!
ADB: It would be a much cooler answer if I said that!